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Jonathan Waters: ‘I don’t want to have to sue the university that I love’

August 7, 2014

Hickman.201@osu.edu
Former OSU Marching Band director Jonathan Waters speaks in an interview with The Lantern Aug. 7 at Bob Evan's. Credit: Aaron Yerian / Lantern TV Asst. sports director

Former OSU Marching Band director Jonathan Waters speaks in an interview with The Lantern Aug. 7 at Bob Evan’s. Credit: Aaron Yerian / Lantern TV Asst. sports director

Former Ohio State Marching Band director Jonathan Waters doesn’t want to sue the employer that fired him, the employer that’s also his alma mater. But he didn’t explicitly say he’s ruling it out.

During an interview with The Lantern over breakfast Thursday, Waters opened up about the investigation into his beloved band that ultimately found a culture entrenched in sexual harassment.

Still, Waters said he hopes he won’t have to sue the university over an investigation he said was flawed and one-sided. He refuted claims made by OSU that he was not truthful when asked if he was abusive towards students and said he tried to change the culture of the band before he knew of the investigation.

He did so over a glass of orange juice and a plate of banana bread, occasionally smiling to restaurant patrons who would stare his way. He sported a crisp charcoal suit, complete with a red tie and “Block-O” lapel pin.

The man who was once at the helm of arguably the most visually mesmerizing collegiate band in the country sat quietly in a Bob Evan’s booth, mostly speaking only when prompted by a question. He often expressed a look of uncertainty, as if he knew no matter what he said, he would still be out of the job.

Waters was fired after a report from a two-month investigation determined the band’s culture was “an environment conducive to sexual harassment,” according to a released statement from President Michael Drake last month. It concluded that Waters was either aware of, or reasonably should have been aware of, the sexual culture but did not do enough to address it or prevent it from happening.

Examples listed in the report include an annual band practice in Ohio Stadium that Waters attended where students were expected to march in only their underwear, sexually explicit nicknames that were given to new band members and a case where a female student was told to imitate a sexual act on laps of band members.

During his interview with The Lantern, Waters addressed every question that was asked, sometimes with long, premeditated-sounding answers; other times, with off-the-cuff, to-the-point responses.

His next move

Ultimately, Waters said he would like to be part of the conversation to change the band’s culture moving forward. However, the university has stood by its decision to terminate Waters.

Although he said he knows reinstatement could mean legal action, Waters didn’t explicitly say if he would press charges against OSU.

“I don’t want to have to sue the university that I love,” Waters said. “I don’t want to have to take legal action. What I want to do is clear the reputations of those students and of me and of the many alums who have come before.”

Waters hasn’t had any communication with university officials since his termination, he said, including conversations about getting his job back.

“Midnight Ramp”

Perhaps one of the more startling examples of a sexualized culture within the band was the annual “Midnight Ramp” tradition, where students marched into Ohio Stadium wearing only their underwear.

Waters said he eventually eliminated the event in efforts to change the culture, and did so before he was aware of the investigation. Waters said he notified the band squad leaders on May 9 that midnight ramp would end. He said he didn’t learn about the investigation until early June.

The report said Waters learned of the investigation on May 26 when he was told it involved allegations about the band’s culture.

“They weren’t just notified of the cancellation, we had our ‘big talk’ about it and decided as a group,” Waters said.

That talk wasn’t just about Midnight Ramp, Waters said, but was part of a broader context that included hazing, alcohol and harassment.

Waters, who attended Midnight Ramp, said other staff members, including the OSU Police chief, have assisted with the event in some capacity for years.

“I was in the office all those years when (former director) Jon Woods would call the police chief and say, ‘next Tuesday OK for midnight ramp? Yep, OK.’ Called the stadium folks, ‘next Tuesday OK for midnight ramp? Yep.’ I did the same as director last year and I know the police were there and I know that they knew about it.”

University Police Chief Paul Denton referred The Lantern to OSU spokesman Gary Lewis. Lewis did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

The abusive audio recording

Part of the investigation looked at whether Waters was “sometimes abusive towards students.” The report cited two examples of Waters yelling and cursing at students, one of which was corroborated by multiple witnesses and another that was supported by an audio recording.

That audio was recorded in September by the student being yelled at and features Waters berating a band member and using expletives.

“We told you to do something on the field and you outright disrespected (associate director Christopher Hoch) and me,” Waters said. “This will not stand. We tell you to stand on your head, and as drum major, you’ll stand on your g—— head if you want to be drum major.”

In an attempt to clear the air, Waters said his language during the meeting was out of character but was warranted after the band member verbally assaulted an associate director in front of the band during a rehearsal.

“I can’t remember verbatim what he (the band member) said, but it was jaw-droppingly disrespectful,” Waters said. “I had the entire rehearsal to stew about this and I was angry at the fact that he had verbally assaulted one of our staff so I chose the wrong words to express my anger.”

More controversy about the recording arose Tuesday when OSU released a statement via Lewis, saying Waters wasn’t forthcoming or truthful with the university. Lewis’ statement cited an example from the investigative report where Waters denied ever having yelled or cursed at students.

“I don’t believe I was dishonest in answering the question because I know myself,” Waters said. “I know who I am and I’m not a yeller or a screamer or a swearer.”

A note from fellow Bob Evan's patrons who picked up former marching band director Jonathan Waters' bill during an interview with The Lantern Aug 7. It reads, "Jon: We stand with you! Breakfast on us." Credit: Aaron Yerian / Lantern TV Asst. sports director

A note from fellow Bob Evan’s patrons who picked up former marching band director Jonathan Waters’ bill during an interview with The Lantern Aug 7. It reads, “Jon: We stand with you! Breakfast on us.” Credit: Aaron Yerian / Lantern TV Asst. sports director

Even after all that’s come to light with the investigation, much of the public still backs Waters and argues for his reinstatement. Supporters have taken to social media, online fundraising websites and petitions in favor of the ousted director. The TBDBITL Alumni Club even said their main priority is to get Waters his job back through their own investigation.

Perhaps another humbling example of support came when the Bob Evan’s server dropped off Waters’ check. On the back said, “Jon, we stand with you! Breakfast on us.”

 

Eileen McClory contributed to this article.

 

Correction: Aug. 7, 2014

An earlier version of this article misspelled Jonathan Waters’ name once.


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Comments (100)

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  1. Andy says:

    “What I want to do is clear the reputations of those students and of me and of the many alums who have come before.”

    If people haven’t realized yet that Waters isn’t doing this for himself, they’re only fooling themselves.

  2. Sad Story says:

    Let it go! There was a similar outcry when woody Hayes, Earl Bruce, Jim Tressel, and many others were fired from OSU. Waters isn’t the first and will not be the last. Get over yourselves!

  3. Anonymous says:

    Waters knows what the band means to people, especially to those who have been in it, and that is absolutely worth fighting for. These holier-than-thou university officials will never get it. Drake needs to man up and meet with the guy and the students he’s hurting face to face.

  4. Janey says:

    Major major screw up by the university. PR nightmare for the new president. This will only continue to be a stain on them unless they fix it by working alongside waters.

  5. Reality Check says:

    Keeping him would have been a legal stain. He is a Title IX nightmare waiting to happen. This was a senior leadership everyone on board he has to go decision. It’s the right one. No man or band is bigger then the university. Want a PR nightmare. Wait for a lawsuit to come if you reinstate him and something happens. You open yourself up to huge lawsuits with him on board. Waters can’t be part of the solution. The university is cleaning up a mess that has been around for too long and Waters is part of that. Sometimes acting in the best interest of the university means everyone won’t be happy. He can trying suing if he wants but the university had the right to release him. Harassment Title IX cases are not based on opinion polls it doesn’t matter what the rest of the band thinks. This ship has sailed he Waters won’t be coming back.

  6. Andy says:

    I was going to start disagreeing with you, Reality Check, but your lack of attention to detail in grammar and spelling makes me think you also lack attention to detail on facts.

  7. Yoyo says:

    This is what happens when a high profiles child doesn’t get their way, they retaliate.
    Christ even in junior high school our football and baseball coaches used profanity and raised their voices every practice. Looking back,it made us stronger as a team and I credit that with assisting in helping my maturity.
    How about recording the football coach at practice for some benchmarking of culture.

  8. Reality Check says:

    Reality tells me Andy my grammar and spelling on a message board are not concerns worth worrying about, it’s my dissertation where I fret over spelling and grammar. Whether I spell correctly or not the reality remains the same. He is a liability to the university. Check any commentary from legal experts on Title IX.

  9. Really says:

    A country of primarily thin-skinned sissies. Your families need to discipline their children from early age. You people have no values or heart. United States used to be a country that had strong citizens, now you spoiled sissies. This incident shows your weakness.

  10. Tim G says:

    So I can either believe a crap ton of people involved with the band who say Waters fought against the sex culture or I can believe high-up, unconnected university officials who, judging by how the report was handled, know very little about what was going on there. hmmmm.

    Given this choice, I’m not going to side with the people who try to make us think firing someone (and let’s get real – the guy’s an upstanding man) is the ONLY course of action they can take.

    They only want us to believe that because firing is the only thing they have known how to do in recent times. And it’s one of the only reasonable talking points they can come up with for their mistake. I miss the way things used to be, when I could be proud of my alma mater.

  11. Qbert says:

    Reality:
    They terminated him to cover their button against lawsuits.

  12. Pac Man says:

    Qbert hit it on target. Keep and your open to lawsuits can him and you can cover your behind. Remember OSU was named as one of 55 schools with a Title IX problem. That how it works to hot to hold on to.

  13. Michigan says:

    He will make lots of money some place else. He is great. The University will ensure further tarnishing of his reputation. They cannot let him go somewhere else and be competition…

  14. Yeah, sure.......... says:

    Funny how the interim director ALSO knew about the midnight ramp, but was not fired from HIS position and was given the helm of the OSUMB.
    Everybody spouting off about Title IX investigations need to remember that it ALSO involves due process, which Mr. Waters was NOT afforded.

    I also think Mr. Waters should consider suing the Drum Major that recorded him without his knowledge or consent, which was still illegal the last time I checked.

    Man gets fired for not doing enough to control the culture and doing too much to control the culture.
    Somebody wanted that job real bad.

  15. I was honored to met Jonathan Waters at an OSU alumni meeting in April.
    He is one one of the most personable, well-mannered, respectable, fine persons I have ever met not to mention his exceptional talent……
    There is no way he would ever condone disrespectful actions by anyone.
    My response is directed to Sad Story and Reality Check.
    The case against Jonathan was a very obvious rush to judgment as evidenced by the many who have spoken out in support of him.
    My prayer is that JUSTICE will be done and he will be reinstated and all will be better for this………I want to be proud of the school that my daughter worked so hard to graduate from…..

  16. Not Really says:

    The University fired him to cover themselves with Title IX. They didn’t fire him because of it. Whatever due process he was due would be afforded by his contract. The university consulted with internal legal and this was the conclusion fire him.

  17. Reality Check says:

    Jill’s Waters I appreciate your setiments and can believe Waters is a fine person however the University fired him to cover themselves from Title IX liability. In another era he gets a reprimand keeps his job. Today he gets fired. See what legal experts asked have said on this case.

  18. Qbert says:

    Not really
    You are correct. They do it all the time. Someone makes an accusation, has at least one person to back up the story, they then make their decision. You will not even be heard.

  19. JP says:

    As an attorney Waters doesn’t have a leg to stand on and OSU had no choice but to terminate his employment. Potential liability was too great.

  20. Not Really says:

    Most people here are missing the point. Qbert and JP summed it up. I get it the arguments of it doesn’t seem right, it wasn’t that bad, this is just a few people etc. I can believe he’s a nice guy and so on. But justice and the law don’t always match up. I think this is Waters Hail Mary, hope he can generate public attention and hope they take him back. He probably knows he has nothing else to do. His arguments make sense in an average joe kind of way but those won’t fly in court. The university has to make liability decisions and sometimes those decisions really stink, but they have to be made. If he’s going to sue he might as well do it because the university hasn’t made a step towards him. Maybe he realizes he has no chance in court.

  21. Jeff Cox says:

    As an attorney, I can say that Title IX in no way, shape, or form required the university’s actions here. As someone who had taken part in such investigations and authored such reports in the past, I can say that the Glaros Report, the product of the investigation that resulted in Waters’s firing, is so poorly written (unsupported factual conclusions, lack of factual integrity, lack of internal consistency, including some flat-out contraditions) that it is likely useless in any legal proceeding except to show defamation and calls into serious question the competence of everyone associated with it, including the “Compliance and Integrity Office,” the university legal staff (i.e. the same people who wrote Jim O’Brien’s contract), and especially the administration. Any Title IX liability they limited by firing Waters, which is highly doubtful, is more than counterbalanced by other areas in which the university opened itself to many other areas of liability, such as defamation, substantive and procedural due process, and negligence. The administration had handled this in such a way as to ensure maximum damage to the university.

  22. Ronnie says:

    If that’s the case let’s see him sue and put his money where his mouth is because the university isn’t showing any signs of going the other way. I don’t think the university was required to fire him I think they saw firing him as a way to protect themselves from future litigation from others and Title IX violations that might come from OCR not in a court of law. I’m sure the university legal department feels the opposite and at this point I don’t think anything changes unless it goes to court. After all finding two lawyers who completely disagree with each other isn’t exactly hard to do.

  23. Jeff Cox says:

    Ronnie,

    1. Ohio State’s legal department is not exactly known for its competence. See, eg, Jim O’Brien. And many of us, including me, suspect an agenda by the administration beyond limiting legal liability. The abysmal handling of this situation, which more than one Fortune 500 company crisis management consultant has criticized as being about as bad as possible, supports that suspicion. Put simply, I and many others do not trust the current administration. The current president’s record at Cal-Irvine only reinforces that lack of trust.

    2. A court case is not acceptable. Anything less than Jon Waters, the best band director in the country, in charge of the Ohio State Marching Band, is not acceptable. You don’t fire your best employees for such a legal abomination as the Glaros Report. As a public entity, the administration is answerable to the public. And if the administration will not follow the proper course and reinstate Waters, then it must be held accountable.

  24. Ronnie says:

    I remember O’Brien’s deal. Unfortunate end to that. I respect your opinion Jeff but I don’t see anything telling me the university is going the other direction. A court case is the only way I see this going. The university is dug in they made their choice. Only way you see Waters is after years of litigation. One thing the university is competent or not, is stubborn. You think it’s a coincidence they announced the interim directors the day before Waters appearance. OSU is dug in this only ends in court and it won’t be anytime soon just like O’Brien.

  25. Jeff Cox says:

    Then we will increase the public pressure. We are not going away. It is the administration that has embarrassed the university, not the band. And if the administration will not do the right thing, reinstate Waters, and retract the defamatory Glaros Report, then they should be removed from office.

  26. Ronnie says:

    I pass through some OSU circles, I don’t hear any chatter up high of any dissension in the ranks. Mind you I just know folks who know folks. And getting people out of there unless they did something criminal well that takes an act of a God. There are faces around there that date from Gee to Kirwan to Holbrook back to Gee and now to Drake. People just don’t go away. Real shame is this won’t be resolved quickly or anytime soon and we will all be bleeding from this wound a long time. Only thing I see is a bitter long end. Hope I’m wrong but more then a few winters tell me otherwise.

  27. Jeff Cox says:

    I hope you’re wrong, too, Ronnie, but I fear the trust between the administration and many of us is irrevocably broken. Thanks for the discusdion and take care.

  28. Jeff Cox says:

    *Discussion. Great. The one time spell-check does not kick in. SMH.

  29. Annoyedmous says:

    So, just to clarify… what happened was not what would be expected to be allowed to happen anywhere else on campus, Waters was expected to change that and in two years hadn’t, Waters lied to the administration, our former President was an unmitigated dbag himself and knew about this but had done nothing also, and we now ought to get rid of the new President that has been here all of a month and had this dropped in his lap.

    Got it.
    Waters is Jesus and Gordon Gee is God, meanwhile one behaved like a child and the other is a manipulative corporate apologist.
    Nothing to see here.

  30. Ronnie says:

    lol take care Jeff I respect your passion. And I live by the mantra of never hold spell check against anybody on the internet. Words to live by.

  31. Moving On says:

    Annoyedmous BOOM I second that emotion well said. Finally someone in touch with the life the rest of us live has made an appearance. The sun doesn’t rise and set on the band.

  32. Jeff Cox says:

    Annoyedmous:

    1. Gee loved Ohio State and actually descended from his ivory tower to deign to talk to us. The trustees fired him because he insulted Notre Dame. Drake insults Ohio State through this defamatory Glaros report, won’t talk to students – he never did at Cal-Irvine, where seemed ok with harassing of Jewish students – and when questioned invokes the papal infallibility doctrine. Advantage: Gee.

    2. The Glaros Report is so incompetently written and so evinces more of an assassination than an investigation that it is likely useless in court. The witness statements, upon which you say Waters lied, are not credible because the Glaros Report contains no indication of which witness said what, when the interview was conducted and by whom, and where a transcript of the interview might be obtained to check for context, even making allowances for confidentiality. Nor was Waters’ defense allowed in the report. A 2nd year law student could destroy the Glaros Report in court. In most places if you turn in an investigative report like that, let alone release it to the public, you get fired. Yet Drake invokes the papal infallibility doctrine for it.

    3. Firing Waters, the best band director in the country, made this a big story, which drags in the Glaros Report and blasts it everywhere, and makes its defamatory statements national – which enrages us band alumni and leads many of us to consider defamation actions against Ohio State.

    Drake is the one who made this mess, with a big assist from the Title IX cultists who think Title IX trumps absolutely everything, from the laws of the US Constitution to the laws of physics. Whether it not Drake asked for this, his job was to minimize the damage. Instead he maximized it. This is on him.

  33. Jeff Cox says:

    Moving On,

    If and when someone wrongfully brands you a sexual pervert like they have branded us, let me know how OK you are with it.

  34. Moving On says:

    People defending the band are like a cult. Drinking that Koolaid no matter what. We’d be better off if they just did away with the band for like five years so people could focus on something else. Maybe something actually important. Trust me there really are more important things then this, which is just about anything else.

  35. Moving On says:

    They didn’t say Waters was the pervert he just watched the alleged perverts. The flying 69 sounds like good ole fashion family fun to me, nothing wrong there.

  36. Fed Up says:

    Title IX requires that men and women are treated equally. In this case, both men and women had to go down to their underwear and march. That is purely ok based on Title IX rules.

    As for him having a chance in court. He has none. An employer can fire you for whatever reason they want in this state.

    He could have a case of defamation of character, however.

  37. Moving On says:

    Being consistent with how the band does things it should be defication of character.

  38. Jeff Cox says:

    Fed Up,

    1. Midnight Ramp was not required, so no one “had” to do it.

    2. “At will” employment does not completely apply to state entities, which are still restrained by the Constitution in numerous respects, including due process and freedom of speech. The university is also restrained by federal laws other than Title IX for receipt of federal funding. This is not a case of refusal to renew a contract. This is a termination. The 6th Circuit is more restrictive of when a government entity can terminate employment than many of the other circuits. The Glaros Report cited a violation of the university harassment policy (without specifying that there was someone who felt harassed, BTW) in part as justification for firing Waters, but the university also likely has a due process policy for termination that requires performance reviews, notice of problems, and an opportunity to correct it. (There is certain such a policy in place in Indiana, which is far more at will than Ohio). There is not even the pretension of due process in this Glaros Report and its results.

  39. BH says:

    Moving On, the report did not state that band members were FORCED to do anything. According to the majority of band members and alumni, no one had to partake of the “traditions” if they did not feel comfortable. If a band member was not comfortable with the flying 69, then just say “no”. No one can force anyone to do anything they don’t want to do. Did the band members hold a gun to someone’s head or make them take drugs in order to make them do these “traditions”? No. Also, Waters was making changes, and how he was making those changes was completely appropriate. He was making the change within. He was electing the students to make the change. It is a slow process, but one that better enforces a CULTURAL change. Which is what the University wanted per the report. Just telling people to change and expelling students from the band will only decrease morale and productivity. Firing John Waters was not the best action that the University could take. Someone from the outside came in (Drake, who doesn’t care about our University as we do, remember, he’s from California and decided in 2 months time that John Waters wasn’t an asset to the University. Drake couldn’t be more wrong. I can’t believe Drake didn’t ask for more information on Waters himself. I mean, Waters made the University MILLIONS with the Apple contract. I hope that the alumni pull their monetary support and hit the University where it really hurts.

  40. Ricky says:

    its dumb stuff like this that shows where ohio state fans priorities are. this is old news. he was fired. get over it. we have to stop treating everyone and everything related to football in any form as impervious to criticism. there are way more important things going on in the world to be upset about..

  41. Anonymous says:

    The point also is that, not only has Ohio State left itself vulnerable to a lawsuit from Waters, for terminating him on the basis of this disgraceful report based essentially on hearsay, it may also have to contend with one from the students whose personal and religious details it outlined so graphically, and unnecessarily. Students are rightfully protected by FERPA, Title IX, and HIPAA, amongst other regulations, and offending the Anti-Defamation League is never very clever, either.

    President Drake has, in his first three weeks on the job, essentially rendered himself a lame-duck President. He will not be able to make any appearances in front of large alumni groups, and his value as a fund-raiser (the principal requirement for his position) has already gone into the negative. Hard to see how he, or his administration, recover from this fiasco.

  42. Doug says:

    As one of the 6504 TBDBITL Alumni and father of three of the 225 members of the 2013 OSUMB, I will not be “getting over it.” So many threads have come loose in the report on the so-called “investigation” that the emperor clearly has no clothes. Dr. Drake has defamed some of the finest people I know and the greatest organization of its kind in the world. The report is filled with false allegations, rumor and innuendo. I was never hazed as a member of the OSUMB but OSU has been hazing me for the last two weeks.

  43. Sue says:

    The higher ups at the university knew about all of this so I am not sure why this is all on Jon Waters. Why are they acting like this was some super-secret band behavior and they are acting all shocked? THEY ALL KNEW ABOUT IT!!!
    It is not like he was told from Bricker Hall or from the College of Music to clean up the atmosphere of the band. The report pretty much says he should have known to clean it up without any direction from the university or the College of Music. Not too sure why the College of Music is getting a pass….the chairman should have stepped and implemented policy changes and that did not happen.

  44. Moving On says:

    BH please people weren’t forced they were just indoctrinated into the cult. A five year break from the band would be great. Take it to court lets see if someone can sort it out there. I liked seeing the band but it isn’t worth this continued distraction. Good luck to the man who would be King Waters and the sycophants who follow him around have fun with years of litigation because the university has moved on. The band was like fries to football team’s burger. I’m happy to have my burger without the fries. The majority of us weren’t in the band and a number of us are tired of hearing about it. You all may not move on but we will.

  45. Paul Burton says:

    I fully agree with Doug , as I am also an Alumni 1966 , Drake was wrong and his actions have harmed a Great University as well as TBDBITL . He has insulted all members , past and present.

  46. Doug says:

    Moving on – Based on the number of people who chose not do some things, your cult argument is just plain stupid. I hope that someone stands up for you if you are ever unjustly accused of doing things that did not happen. As quickly as you’d like to get back to eating your lunch, it looks like you don’t have what it takes to stand up for yourself.

    “Honor is more important than honors.” Abraham Lincoln. Some people have one, the other, both or neither. The band had both. Some want to take our honor and we want it back.

  47. Annoyedmous says:

    So, to sum up, you all are fine with a grown man in a position of power referring to your daughters as “joobs” or “taint brush” because, well, OSU.

    And Drake having this dumped on him the first month in, because none of those involved over the years and years this has been going on actually did anything about it, doesn’t matter because, well, OSU.

    So, at OSU, we are fine with discriminatory, childish, power play manipulation of young people, and we kill the messenger that dares to shine a light on it and do anything about it. OSU.

    Drake should just sell the rights to the band to a private company for 50 years and everyone will love him.
    Then he can get back to doing whats really important on this campus… photo ops with undergrads at parties east of High.

  48. Moving On says:

    Doug people in a cult don’t realize they lost their choice long ago. And I’ll take responsibility for the asinine things I am involved in unlike any of the band folks who seem to think this club is larger then the university. And I’m standing up for myself right now as I am sick of band alumni polluting the airwaves with this pointless cause. The band has neither honor or honors what they have plenty of is represented sexual angst. Lincoln wasn’t talking about something like this in that quote. You just sounds sad and out of touch with reality. I’m happy the band helped you out of your awkward childhood but someone else should pay the price for that therapy.

  49. Out of the Box says:

    Jeff Cox. No Fortune 500 company in this day and age would have allowed such flagrant abuses to continue for so long.

  50. A Better Doug says:

    Mushroom Stamp that is a name of honor and great character

  51. JILL says:

    Jonathans foundation is buildt uupon a rock. He has prepared himself with years of study in music. Many years at OSU. I had the honor of meeting him at an OSU alumni gathering in April. He was one of the most personable,fine,respectable persons I have ever met. There is no way he would condone disrepectable behavior from students. He is truly a man of excellence as evidenced by his exceptional talent directing the OSU band. He gave a stellar presentation and received a standing ovastion when I met him. This rush to judgment is a huge TRAVISTY of justice. MY PRAYER is that all concerned will WORK TOGETHER to resolve the impending issues WITH Jonathans input and talent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  52. Anonymous says:

    *yawn* Can we move on with the next OSU scandal, please?

  53. Annoyedmous says:

    Jesus take the wheel.

  54. Jack says:

    Blah Blah Blah he was a great guy, it isn’t right, I ignore everything else in my life, band, band band. I take no responsibility. Whine whine whine. That should sum up the band story.

  55. Anonymous says:

    Annoyedmous – “So, to sum up, you all are fine with a grown man in a position of power referring to your daughters as “joobs” or “taint brush” because, well, OSU.”

    Which he did not. He called band members by their proper names, as did all the directors.

    “And Drake having this dumped on him the first month in, because none of those involved over the years and years this has been going on actually did anything about it, doesn’t matter because, well, OSU.”

    Drake had the clear option to use his recent arrival as a reason to avoid the over-hasty dismissal, but he chose not to. I suppose he was still traumatized by the Underwear Run that is a sanctioned, annual, event at his previous institution.

    “So, at OSU, we are fine with discriminatory, childish, power play manipulation of young people, and we kill the messenger that dares to shine a light on it and do anything about it. OSU.”

    Only if you are foolish enough to believe an uncorroborated and biased narrative, written by a flunky who has never actually had any contact with, or exposure to, the Band. The Report is so full of mistakes, misinterpretations, and flat out lies, it is a bad joke.

    “Drake should just sell the rights to the band to a private company for 50 years and everyone will love him.
    Then he can get back to doing whats really important on this campus… photo ops with undergrads at parties east of High.”

    Sorry, but Drake is going to have a very difficult, if not impossible, time getting past this in the minds of the alumni and students. He may already have made himself a lame duck President, and he certainly won’t be able to set foot on the field in Ohio Stadium any time soon.

  56. Anonymous says:

    “Doug people in a cult don’t realize they lost their choice long ago. And I’ll take responsibility for the asinine things I am involved in unlike any of the band folks who seem to think this club is larger then the university. And I’m standing up for myself right now as I am sick of band alumni polluting the airwaves with this pointless cause. The band has neither honor or honors what they have plenty of is represented sexual angst. Lincoln wasn’t talking about something like this in that quote. You just sounds sad and out of touch with reality. I’m happy the band helped you out of your awkward childhood but someone else should pay the price for that therapy.”

    Annoyedmous – so now we are using the “cult” argument to discredit the students’ own repudiation of the Glaros Report nonsense? Congratulations. It counts for nothing that the average GPA in the Band is 3.6 – these are NOT dumb kids, they are smart, even geekish, and they are not the kind to be duped in the way you suggest. You clearly have no comprehension of the work ethic and ethos of these young people, just like the author of this Report. Your name isn’t Glaros, is it?

  57. Jack says:

    Heard of book smart not street smart. Low emotional IQ. You can have a high GPA and still be a mindless follower.

  58. Billy says:

    Anonymous your quoting Moving On but attributing it to Annoyedmous not sure your in a position to criticize Glaros.

  59. Annoyedmous says:

    Wait, what happened to “these are college kids acting like college kids”?
    Now we’ve moved to “they are smart enough to make their own decisions.”
    GREAT. So they also are mature enough to know the difference between grown up behavior and high school and be responsible for the repercussions then, right?

  60. Moe says:

    On no the Band apologists have caught themselves in a loop of circular logic!!!! What will they do now?? Oh yeah ignore reality, what they always do.

  61. Annoyedmous says:

    Also, for the record, the whole “these are college kids” as an excuse is a slight to the rest of the campus.
    I know plenty of undergrads that are mature, sharp, and uber professional.
    They don’t deserve to get painted with the same brush.

  62. Anonymous says:

    “Anonymous your quoting Moving On but attributing it to Annoyedmous not sure your in a position to criticize Glaros.”

    Did I get anyone fired? No? I see the parallel – they all talk arrant nonsense, based on complete ignorance :-)

  63. Billy says:

    “they all talk arrant nonsense, based on complete ignorance :-)”

    Your pretty good at yourself. Maybe you could be the next band director.

  64. Moe says:

    Anonymous is pretty good at yapping nonsense maybe he is Jon Waters!

  65. Remy says:

    They are starting to appear an awful lot like a cult.

  66. ric allwood says:

    Director Waters was appointed by Gordon Gee.Director Waters had no PhD at the time of his hiring.This rankled Provost Steinmetz,President of the Trustees Wadsworth….so the axe was given to President Drake…endorsed by AD Gene Smith and the deed was done.Had the above mentioned nominated their choice…Title IX wouldn’t have been as prominent as with Mr Waters.The administration of my alma mater has added to a very self destructive culture on the campus.Good luck in paying for all the newly employed people to further the investigation and the future lawsuits…..a poor use of public money.Everybody involved in this Me$$ loses. Ric Allwood.

  67. JILL says:

    “Hang on Sloopy” !!!!!!!
    The OSU Band is OSU and is known across the country as the Best Dam Band in The Land………..
    THIS RUSH TO JUDGMENT IS A HUGE TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE……
    MY PRAYER IS THAT ALL CONCERNED WILL WORK TOGETHER TO RESOLVE THE IMPENDING ISSUES WITH JONATHANS INPUT AND TALENT…..!!!!!!!!!!

  68. Guest says:

    Oh give me a break. Most people who threaten to sue are testing the “Waters” to see if the opponent will cave….NOT!!! I have listened to his interviews and he admitted stuff was going on. How he handled it did him in. Like others said Tressel also fell to “college kids being kids” and ADULTS turning their heads. This is a GREAT band but sadly it must move on……..

    If my child (a buckeye alum)complained to me of being uncomfortable in a sexualized environment he would be GONE!!! SO what if the majority likes the fun and games all it takes is ONE to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!

  69. Anonymous says:

    Guest – you are wrong. Tressel fell because he lied about how much he knew about Tatgate and when he knew it. If he had reported it right away he would still be OSU’s head coach. Nothing to do with “college kids being kids”, everything to do with an adult failing (surprisingly) to do what was required. In Waters’ case, he was given no clear directive from either Gene Smith or The School of Music, but was somehow supposed to be clairvoyant enough to know precisely what had to be done. And when he did what he could, the goal posts were moved to suit the administration’s convenience.

    I agree that when a kid says “enough”, it should send a signal. However, when it takes that kid four years to find out how badly they think they are being harassed, and that revelation conveniently does not come until after they have passed a very important personal milestone in the Band, it is not surprising that one is a little cynical about the exact circumstances.

  70. Ben N says:

    Let’s also be honest. President Drake has done this type of thing before. At UCI he fired a professor based on partial information and after a public out cry was forced to hire him back.

  71. Ed says:

    With all the sh*t that TOSU just went through for the DOE sexual harrasment investigation could Waters possibly expect to be safe?

  72. Ed says:

    The Fish taught me to look at the big picture

  73. USC band alumnus says:

    The Best Damn Band In…
    Their Lingerie?

    Seriously… The times have changed.
    Nowadays… Even the STANFORD band has to keep their clothes on!

  74. Gretchen Rph says:

    Wow, cursing by coaches and directors is against the rules? I never knew that. Years ago I was in a park by the river early in the morning and some Crew coach was getting impressively creative with his swearing over a megaphone. On the river, next to a public park. I remember thinking, hope some frail senior citizen isn’t taking their morning walk on the bike path right about now.

    If anything, this sounds like high school band camp nonsense that just didn’t know when to stop when it went to college.

  75. Alumnae says:

    Why are you all forgetting the main points? Please remember the two sexual assaults (one allegedly a rape) by male band members against female band members under Jon Waters directorship, while Waters continued to allow the over-sexualized culture and excessive alcohol consumption. Plus, how Waters mishandled those cases is also an issue. Did you not hear the one female in the atheletic band and her father speak out to the media? Did you not hear the mother of the female in the marching band speak out to the media? Did you not read about the sexual assaults in the Investigation Report and in the newspaper articles of truly good journalists? This matter is much more than college band pranks, sexual name referencing, and college drinking. Wake up! all of you who have missed the main points and are still missing the main points! Dr. Drake was correct in firing Jon Waters.

  76. Anonymous says:

    Alumnae – you are wrong, just like so many others. One sexual assault took place at an off-campus party, when both parties were so drunk that the complainant couldn’t recall enough detail, or produce enough evidence, to file a police report. Nonetheless, when Waters was told about it the day after it occurred, he did exactly what he should have done and reported it to the University, and the perpetrator was expelled by the following Tuesday. So, far from being mishandled, it was probably resolved more quickly than almost any similar case on the campus. The other case happened on an Athletic Band (note, not an OSU Marching Band) trip and the circumstances were so murky, involving a female student and her boyfriend behaving in direct violation of the behavior code they had signed, and then calling “rape” when caught, that Waters did the sensible thing by separating both parties from the A-band. In both cases Waters acted promptly and properly, even though the complaining parties clearly don’t think so. Neither of these isolated incidents are indicative of the culture of the OSU Marching Band, which is one of long (and often uncomfortable) hours of practice each week, game days that often begin at 4:30am and last until 6pm, and the burning corporate determination to live up to being The Best Damn Band in the Land. Clearly Ohio State had another agenda when it rounded so savagely and abruptly on the Band, and produced this error-strewn and totally one-sided Report. Perhaps this agenda will eventually come out in the various legal proceedings that are sure to follow this fiasco.

    As for your immediate assumption that the Glaros’ report’s claim of the “sexualized culture and excessive alcohol consumption”, you clearly have not been listening as the Report’s narrative and conclusions have been systematically dismantled by the very Band members that the report claimed were so victimized and harassed. Now we see that the Midnight Ramp was not a Band secret,but clearly sanctioned by the University, with the stadium lights on, the scoreboard operating, and campus police on the sidelines. Oh, my!

    So please wake up yourself. You are being sold a bag of goods by Ohio State, and an honorable and talented man has had his life and career destroyed by one of the sloppiest and most dishonest pieces of corporate mis-speak it has ever been my misfortune to see.

  77. JILL says:

    Very well written Anonymous. TRUTH will prevail…..
    You are so right that this is one of the sloppiest,dishonest rushs to judgment put out on such a large scale…..
    JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL and we know after reading ALL the FACTS and COMMENTS what that is…..
    NOW lets give Jonathan a chance to resolve the impending issues with his input and THOROUGH ( complete with regard to every detail) knowledge of the situation and amazing talent……

  78. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Jill. I don’t know how Jonathan Waters will be able “to resolve the impending issues with his input and THOROUGH (complete with regard to every detail) knowledge of the situation…” when he was fuzzy on quite a few details during the initial investigation; when he hemmed and hawed with some of his responses during the initial investigation; and when he purposefully back-tracked some of his answers during the initial investigation. Although this next, new investigation will not focus on what has already been investigated, it is very likely that Jonathan Waters will again get caught in his own alleged cover-up responses, trying once again to make everyone believe that he had been working very hard to change the culture of the band.

  79. Anonymous says:

    NoLongerDonor – we are clearly not privy to the amazing insight you have to Jon Waters’ interaction with the Glaros Report investigators, especially how he “hemmed and hawed”. Were you in the room, too? However, all that aside, there remains the issue of what the University, with this garbage “report”, did to the 225 members of the OSUMB and the 4,000+ OSUMB alumni. They have had all their hard work, dedication, and achievement over the years trashed by an administration and Trustees so determined to make a PR Title IX show by firing Waters, that they didn’t give a thought to any other repercussions. That this hardest working group of students on campus is now having to remove their OSUMB affiliation from their resumes is simply shameful. Drake and the BoT will not walk away from this unscathed – they have seriously underestimated both the scale and longevity of the backlash from this disgraceful shambles, and it is hard to see his tenure lasting very long. It will be interesting to see how far off Gee’s $300M+ annual donations OSU falls in the coming year. That will be his epitaph.

  80. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Anonymous Aug. 16, 2014, 11:06 a.m.
    You say the OSUMB is the “…hardest working group of students on campus….” WHAT? Maybe you want to rephrase that as “one of MANY hard-working groups of students on campus.” Below I’ve listed more as to enlighten you!

    Student research groups–some B.S./B.A., but particularly M.A. and Ph.D (obviously, you don’t know what it’s like spending almost every day and/or night in a lab or at another research site as well as teaching and grading, taking high-level courses, and maintaining a 3.0, but preferably much better); the ROTC (who not only work very hard but who also put their lives in danger to protect our country); athletic teams (please check into how grueling of a schedule and the pressure to perform well on the court and in the classrooms that the OSU men’s and women’s basketball teams have almost all year around); serious student organizations (who work very hard and many hours to make differences in the community and in the lives of others); and more.

    Furthermore, these immature antics by the OSUMB are tarnishing The Ohio State University name as a whole, thus jeopardizing and possibly ruining all of the hard work that has been and is being put in by the MANY hard-working OSU groups of students! It also jeopardizes and possibly ruins their funding and future endeavors. For now, I am only donating to my local OSU Alumni Club to help with a yearly OSU scholarship for a student from my county. I do support Dr. Drake’s and the administration’s firing of Mr. Waters.

  81. Anonymous says:

    NoLongerDonor – I stand by what I said, all these other groups are worthy, fine, students, but 30+ hours a week of time donated in exchange for absolutely no financial or other reward? Athletes on scholarships that the Band doesn’t receive? OK. There are a lot of hard working students on the campus, but not a lot of them have garnered the University over 20 million exposures all over the world on the internet of the kind that the Band has. And, yes, I have a doctorate, so you don’t need to tell me about the demands for that. You are really just being silly to avoid answering how you could pontificate that Waters “hemmed and hawed” in his interviews. You simply do not know, nor do you know how outrageously dishonest the methodology employed by the authors of the Glaros Report is. Since you position yourself as an expert on academic research. ask yourself how a term paper in which you define the behavior of a system from five out of over 220 possible data points, with those five deliberately selected to lie at the very extreme of the set with all the rest ignored, would be received? I see an “F” in your future there, or a new advisor or program if you did this in graduate school.

    These silly pranks are nothing but typical of all kinds of student high jinks anywhere around campus. The fact that most of them occurred well away from Band makes even that association dubious. No, this firing was clearly a pre-determined outcome, for the sake of Title IX appearances to the Feds, that was looking for a justification, so one had to be conjured up. This happened even as Waters was getting outstanding job reviews, from a University that clearly knew he was working hard to eliminate some out-dated traditions. Subsequently, the whole basis for the Report is falling apart, and the University’s embarrassment (and expense) will only be compounded when the hearsay accounts on which his firing was based get dismantled in a court of law.

    For the first time in over 30 years of affiliation with Ohio State, I am so disgusted with the institution that I have stopped making a monthly donation to the University. Neither Drake nor the Board of Trustees will be big enough to admit this horrible mistake, and the University will be paying for it for years to come.

  82. SR says:

    Don’t you just love it when someone says “move on, this isn’t important” and “I wasn’t in band so I don’t know what happened”, but proceeds to comment excessively and knows EVERYTHING that happened in the band. Mhmm.

  83. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Anonymous Aug. 17, 2014, 7:55 p.m.
    Answer to your question: By reading the report. Also, by Discourse Analysis. Mr. Waters’ hesitation to some of his responses was also noted in several very good journalistic articles.

    Furthermore, sexual assaults and sexual harrassment are not silly pranks! As a woman, and I know plenty of men who also agree, I stand by President Drake’s decision because these are serious issues that are not to be tolerated on college campuses nor anywhere else.

    By the way, I have had a successful career and am now retired. “F” is not in my future; it is now. Friends, family, Florida,fun, etc. FYI, I had great academic advisors at OSU! What I had previously posted is for ALL of the hard-working students and student groups at OSU! Many (who are also not on scholarships) have brought world-wide notoriety to the university through outreach programs such as Habitat for Humanity and many more; through innovative products engineered at our fine institution; through cutting-edge research in the sciences, social sciences, and humanities. They were/are not just making much, much money and notoriety for OSU through mega hits on the internet as you say the OSUMB is, but they are also doing it out in the real world (in many, many nations) too!

  84. Joseph R says:

    NoLongerDonor says:
    August 19, 2014 at 10:46 pm

    “Furthermore, sexual assaults and sexual harrassment are not silly pranks! As a woman, and I know plenty of men who also agree, I stand by President Drake’s decision because these are serious issues that are not to be tolerated on college campuses nor anywhere else.”

    Nobody is saying that they are silly pranks – stop complaining about things nobody is claiming. What informed people are saying, however, is that the sexual assaults cited by the report happened off band time, off school property, and one of them was during a time when the marching band doesn’t even exist (marching band only exists from August to December). In both cases, Waters handled the complaints correctly. Almost everything in the Glaros Report has been shown to be false, and there are glaring lies of omission. If I was practicing law in Central Ohio right now, I would be salivating with the thought of all the settlements I could win from the school.

  85. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Joseph R Aug. 19, 2014, 10:46 p.m.
    I was responding to Anonymous Aug. 17, 2014, 7:55 p.m. statement: “These silly pranks are nothing but typical of all kinds of student high jinks anywhere around campus.” Did you not read before posting? Plus, I am not complaining. I am refuting/debating. There is a big difference between “complaining” and “refuting/debating.” I cannot help it if you think what I had written are complaints. In my opinion, I do not know how you could practice law as you stated.

    Furthermore, the athletic band sexual assault (a male band member sexually assaulting a female band member) happened on band time during a trip and Mr. Waters was the head director of that band as well. Although the OSUMB sexual assault (a male band member sexually assaulting a female band member) happened off band time and off school property, it is still an Ohio State University offense because the male was enrolled as an OSU student at the time. As well, Mr. Waters was the head director of the OSUMB at that time. Even though you and others say that Mr. Waters handled these sexual assault complaints (I prefer to call them “reports” instead of “complaints”) correctly, he was still continuing to allow/to overlook/to not extinguish an over-sexualized and over-drinking band culture. Even if only one fourth or one eighth or one sixteenth of the band members comprised this sordid culture, Mr. Waters should not have perpetuated it considering the two serious sexual assaults that he was fully aware of. In my opinion, President Drake’s and the OSU Board of Trustees’ decision to fire Mr. Waters is correct and justifiable.

  86. NoLongerDonor says:

    In above posting, I meant to type “To Joseph R Aug. 20, 2014, 10:09 a.m.”

  87. Anonymous says:

    NoLongerDonor – once again, you base a response on the tacit acceptance of all that is in the Glaros Report – a document that has now been universally discredited as biased, statistically unrepresentative, and which ignored all positive comments, accepting only the (very few) negative ones. A classic example of how NOT to gauge a culture by a survey, but of a document manipulated to fit a pre-determined conclusion.

    Although you appear to have an unprecedented insight into the two instances of sexual assault used to frame Mr Waters, you are actually missing some very salient points about them. In the Athletic Band case, you need to start by examining the P&T document that both parties had previously signed, and which they both violated. The remaining details of the alleged assault are actually far less clear than you claim, which is why both parties were suspended. In the case of the second, you are right – off campus the assault is a University offense, but not a Marching Band one. The fact that the two students knew one another through Band is the only, incidental, OSUMB connection, and the Band director is not responsible for their behavior during a non-Band activity. Mr Waters was deemed to have handled both these incidents entirely appropriately, apart from the fact that he did not, apparently, apologize profusely enough to the girl’s helicopter mother.

    However, then you extrapolate these two events into the completely unrelated issue of the Band “culture”. Only if you believe the Glaros Report, and by now hardly anyone with a functional IQ does, can you seriously propose that Mr Waters “perpetuated” this “sordid culture”. Firstly, there was no “sordid culture”, even though the Glaros Report did its best to create one, and to think that one was the origin of these two assaults is absurd. Secondly, Mr Waters was doing what he could to eliminate some of more outdated traditions he inherited, many from twenty or more years ago. He was not labelled the “fun police” by Band members for nothing. Moreover, he was doing this with absolutely no support staff to assist him in managing an organization twice as large as the football program.

    I would suggest that if you are serious about learning what the real culture of the OSUMB is, then you get down to the Stadium at 6am on a Saturday game day, and follow the Band all day until 6pm or later. What you will see is not a 2014 version of Animal House, but a student group fixated on performance and excellence, and dedicated to representing their University in the only was they know how – with absolutely no effort spared.

    Somehow, though, I think you will prefer to live in the world of cliches and lurid headlines that our administration seems to favor. After all, it is so much easier.

  88. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Anonymous Aug. 21, 2014, 3:43 p.m.
    FYI–I don’t live in the world of cliches and lurid headlines! I know first hand what goes on in the OSUMB. A close family friend was in the band, saying that these last two years, especially last year 2013-2014, were disgraceful with the more-than-before explicit sexual conduct and excessive drinking by quite a few band members. Adding that some members were smashed on game day, not even waiting until after leaving the OSU stadium or after getting off the bus from an away game. Yes, she felt uncomfortable and realized that it was only getting worse because Mr. Waters was not doing anything to extinguish these behaviors. I call them “sordid” because they are sordid. The investigators and media called it a “culture,” and I agree with the use of this term. I am glad that my close family friend is mature and did not give in to the pressure she felt from her peers to do things that she did not want to do! She has much talent and is now using it beautifully in a comfortable environment.

  89. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Anonymous Aug. 21, 2014, 3:43 p.m.
    Please do not respond and say that this is just one person, one case, one situation, because it is not! I know of other members who felt the same way. Actually, ONE is enough when the more-than-before explicit sexual conduct and sexual harrassment and excessive drinking were brought to Mr. Waters attention but not taken seriously by him. I meant to type sexual harrassment in my above posting, too. I will not get into the two sexual assaults again because you keep missing the point!

  90. Anonymous says:

    NoLongerDonor – yes but they WERE taken seriously by him, and he eliminated a great many of the silly and outdated pranks. And it is not just one, there are literally thousands now of former TBDBITL members who categorically deny the atmosphere of “sexualization” that the Glaros Report was drafted specifically to create. Sexual harassment means unwelcome sexual pressures that are required to maintain employment – simply not the case here. Similarly with the drinking that you raise – none of this is on Band duty or time, and you cannot blame Waters for any of the excessive alcohol use that is prevalent amongst the entire student body, and which takes place off campus. If you do, then you must hold all faculty teaching any class responsible for their students’ behavior outside the classroom, too.

    “You know of other members” sounds like the complainant here, who (or rather, whose mother) was allowed/encouraged to identify other potential malcontents to spice up the narrative, whilst any positive feedback was studiously ignored. Two Band members out of two hundred and twenty five, both with a particular axe to grind, is simply not a basis for categorizing the behavior and culture of the entire group, especially when their testimony is hearsay, and not recorded or properly documented. Just look at the elementary errors of fact and spelling in the report, and you find a document that most freshman would be ashamed of. Unless, of course, you were actively looking for an excuse to make a public display of someone in order to get the federal Title IX authorities off your back. When that exercise also trashes the years of hard work and dedication of the entire Band and all its alumni, the University has gone from the outrageous to the simply despicable. The kids from Nellie’s Catwalk and the Ohio School for the Blind, among a host of others, simply give the lie to your and the University’s ignorant and uninformed picture of the Band.

  91. NoLongerDonor says:

    To Anonymous Above
    The definition of sexual harrassment that you provided is a limited one. Sexual harrassment extends beyond that and it does fit what my close family friend and some other band members dealt with. They do have documentation (of sexual harrassemnt and excessive drinking–yes, on game day too), but how they chose/will choose to share their true information with proper authorities was/is up to them. I know that my close family friend is mature, well-educated, and honest. She is not one of the two sexual assault victims. Even though I do not know those two females nor their families, I commend their courage to have spoken out publicly.

    You say, “Two Band members out of two hundred and twenty five, both with a particular axe to grind, is simply not a basis for categorizing the behavior and culture of the entire group….”

    However, two out of 225 is a basis for firing Mr. Waters when he knew about and did not extinguish the more-than-before sexual harrassment and excessive drinking that was making my close family friend (I know that she brought it to his attention to no avail) and some other band members uncomfortable. If you, Anonymous, were not participating in the lewd sexual acts and excessive drinking then you should be mature and sensible enough to know how to separate yourself from “…the entire group” label. Well, I have posted all that I need. As I said before, President Drake and the OSU Board of Trustees made the correct decision by firing Mr. Waters.

  92. NoLongerDonor says:

    I said above that I have posted all I need, but I will say this for clarification because most likely readers (probably Anonymous) will take it the wrong way:

    Above, I wrote “I know that my close family friend is mature, well-educated, and honest. She is not one of the two sexual assault victims.” For those of you (probably Anonymous) who will take it as “She is not ‘like’ one of the two sexual assault victims” that is not what I meant. All I mean is that my close family friend is not one of the two female band members who were sexually assaulted. But, what I heard from the public out-speaking by one sexually assaulted band members and by two parents, to me, they seem mature, well-educated, and honest as well.

  93. Anonymous says:

    NoLongerDonor – Oh, dear, where to start with this nonsense? First, the two assault cases were dealt with quickly and properly by Mr. Waters, even though the first was at an off campus party, and really nothing to do with the Band, and the second needs to be calibrated against the parties’ direct violation of the P&T documents that Athletic Band members have to sign. Even the University says so. Your continuing insistence on blaming these on some “culture” that Mr Waters should somehow have cured is what is truly absurd. How about blaming it instead on the propensity of college students to drink to much (both parties), and then let their hormones take over? As I said, logically you must blame all such incidents on the faculty, since we too have these students in our classes, and if they do silly things off campus at weekends, your argument would hold us responsible for those as well. It’s just simplistic nonsense.

    As it happens, I do know both the complainants, although I am not, and never have been, a member of TBDBITL. I also know a great deal more about these two incidents than you clearly do. I think you will get a rude awakening when they (and one complainant’s mother) are deposed, and probably have to testify in court. I only hope your psyche can survive the shock it will undoubtedly be in for.

  94. Understanding says:

    If you read what what NoLongerDonor has been writing, I don’t think she is blaming the two sexual assaults on “some ‘culture’ that Mr. Waters should somehow have cured.” She doesn’t seem to be making that causation. She seems to be stressing that her family friend and some others had told Mr. Waters that they were uncomfortable with the overt sexual pranks, sexual harrassment, and alcohol abuse that were becoming worse and Mr. Waters was found to have done nothing or to have waited too long (read Mr. Waters responses in the report) to attempt to stop these issues in order to make her family friend and some others feel comfortable in their OSUMB environment.

    Aside, NoLongerDonor seems to be stressing that the two sexual assaults on top of (not a causation of) the unattended, on-going issues of overt sexual pranks, sexual harrassment, and alcohol abuse that Mr. Waters should’ve readily tried to nip in the bud makes the reasoning of firing Mr. Waters more prevalent.

    NoLongerDonor also seems to be stressing that even if there weren’t any sexual assaults but just the uncomfortable overt sexual pranks, sexual harrassment, and alcohol abuse that her family friend and some others had to contend with, Mr. Waters should’ve addressed their concerns right away. He should’ve taken OSU’s sexaul harrassment training program right away when asked to do so. He should’ve had all of the band members take it, too. Instead, he was found not to have done so. I can’t remember if an alcohol abuse session was offered as well, but if so he should’ve exposed himself and all of the band to it.

    With all of this said and done, Mr. Waters was in violation of The Ohio State University rules and was a clear liability to the institution. President Drake made the correct decision.

  95. Understanding says:

    Clarification 3rd paragraph: He should’ve had all of the band members take it “right away,” too.

    Clarification 3rd paragraph: I can’t remember if an alcohol abuse session was offered as well, but if so he should’ve exposed himself and all of the band to it “right away.”

  96. Old time Buckeye Alumni says:

    Ohio State is stuck with Drake and Gene Smith. What a shame. And this guy Steinmetz. He’s a joker in the deck with his antics with commencement speakers. What a cast of characters.

  97. Anonymous says:

    Understanding – firstly, you should be wary of taking anything in the Glaros Report at face value, given the distortions, misinterpretations, and manipulation of information with which it is riddled. You simply cannot take three or four data points that lie on one extreme end of a set of 225, and say that these present the “culture” of the entire group. It is simply statistical nonsense, and downright dishonest. However, once someone does embrace that report, then it is a short step to blaming all the ills of the free world on the Band director. For example, alcohol abuse is a problem right across the student body and beyond, but if an incident happens off campus and away from Band activities, you cannot blame the Band director for it, any more than you can blame any faculty member for things students in their class get up to off campus. Again if we give the dog a bad name (a la Glaros) then we can ascribe all manner of unrelated issues to it.

    Whether Waters did or did not sit through one of the kind of mind-numbing workshops that the University puts so much weight on, it is true that the Band leadership for the past two years has participated (at Waters’ instigation) in a professionally run retreat at Aileron, in which the issues you raise were addressed, and then passed on to all the Band in their own sessions. Again, however, that kind of news was not what the University wanted to publicize in the Glaros report, so it was carefully buried.

    In spite of all of this, the administration and Trustees identified their Title IX sacrificial lamb, and slaughtered it. Nothing can prevent those unwilling to dig below the University’s facade presented so luridly in the Glaros Report, but the truth of the matter is seeping out, step by step. No doubt the upcoming depositions of the complainants and administrators will be very revealing, and probably make Waters a rich man.

  98. Buckeye traditions says:

    More will come out on this story. Gene Smith is nowhere to be found apparently to comment on this situation?

  99. J Rapach says:

    If I thought that I had every right to sue, I would. On the other hand, if I receive a great offer from another University, I would not sue.

  100. Jessi M says:

    Jon Waters returning to perform with the Alumni Band (and the heart-breaking video of him crying during Carmen Ohio) speaks volumes about this man’s character and his devotion to the band. I’m not a band member, but as an OSU alum, I’ve never been more proud of them. ‪#‎TBDBITL‬ makes me proud to be a buckeye… Sadly, I cannot say the same for the administration that continues to stand behind the false and inaccurate report that led to his firing.

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