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Letter to the editor: President Michael Drake has introduced controversy, division with firing of Jonathan Waters

August 20, 2014

burkhardt.5@osu.edu

Letter to the editor:

I write to you regarding the recent events surrounding the dismissal of The Ohio State University Marching Band director Jon Waters. As a lifelong Ohio resident, Ohio State alumnus, lifetime member of The Ohio State Alumni Association and proud Buckeye, I am offended, embarrassed and deeply disappointed by President Michael Drake’s handling of this entire matter. By firing Jon Waters, he has not only not fixed or even addressed the (yet to be publicly substantiated) problems of “sexualized culture” in the band, he has single-handedly introduced controversy and division where before there was none.

In what can only have been intended as an attempt to avoid a national news story, Drake clearly acted in haste by firing Waters without a thorough investigation and accounting of all the relevant facts. In the face of recent revelations about inaccuracies and omissions in the Glaros Report, his further refusal to admit his mistake only serves to diminish his stature and that of our great university. (Editor’s note: Some have called the report of the OSU investigation into the marching band culture the “Glaros Report,” because Chris Glaros was the OSU compliance official who oversaw the investigation.)

There are likely problems of culture in the marching band that must be addressed. Jon Waters is beloved by many and has done far more good than harm for our university and — more importantly — for our students. Drake acted hastily in an attempt to take the easy way out. None of these facts is easily disputed. With that in mind, I am not surprised that university officials have been relatively quiet in the weeks since July 24. After all, what could they say that would not merely add fuel to the fire?

But what really does surprise me is the apparent lack of concern among the so-called Buckeye faithful. There are roughly half a million Ohio State alumni around the world. Add to that the network of Ohio State sports fans and surely that number reaches the millions. Why haven’t they spoken up? On Twitter, @Buckeye_Nation has 152,000 followers, while @WeStandWithJon has only 579. Is it that our fellow Buckeyes are apathetic or that they just don’t know what’s going on? (Editor’s note: Follower counts were as of Wednesday afternoon.)

In Columbus last week, Drake appeared at the weekly Columbus Metropolitan Club forum and luncheon to speak before a crowd of several hundred community leaders. Outside, a group of Waters’ supporters registering barely in the double digits was on hand to show its support for Jon Waters. In downtown Columbus, not three miles from the main campus, we could not muster more voices than those a few devoted individuals?

What Drake did was wrong, Waters got a raw deal, and every single one of those Buckeye faithful around the world needs to know about it. And if they already know about it, they need to speak up.

I’m asking your readers to please, please help to get the word out: Voice your support on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and anywhere else you can using the hashtag #WeStandWithJonWaters. Better yet, write a letter to the Board of Trustees and tell them that you think Michael Drake made a terrible mistake.

The phrase “our honor defend, we will fight till the end” may never before have had such urgency.

Michael Burkhardt
The Ohio State University
Class of 1998
burkhardt.5@osu.edu


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Comments (39)

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  1. James says:

    The unfortunately truth is that the average person is just going to take the investigation and report at face value. The administration is just banking on the hope that most people will just see the sensationalized headlines that were dominant in the few days following the report’s release.

    The bright side (if you can call it that) is that Drake and the administration have handled this so incredibly incompetently, that virtually every news segment on the subject is now exposing Drake’s lack of facts.

    The Glaros Report has been thoroughly debunked – interviewed witnesses are now on record saying the investigators misquoted, mischaracterized, and/or chose not to quote them at all, depending on how bad it made Waters look. They intentionally did not include evidence provided by Waters which supported his case; they did, however, go out of their way to include two offensive documents, both of which were created before Waters was director. They did not prove that Waters knew about anything sexually offensive, and it turns out that he did properly handle a sexual assault situation within the band. People named in the report as “victims” have come forward and have accused the investigators of bald-face lies regarding reference events.

    To add the embarrassing cherry on the cake, OSU was forced to release Waters latest performance review as a result of a Freedom of Information Act request (despite much hand-wringing and dragging of feet on the part of the administration). And what did it show? It turns out that not only did the school already know of cultural problems within the band, but they commended Waters on his “courageous efforts” in combating potential cultural issues. So now, the school can’t even argue that this was a sudden problem, which necessitated a quick firing.

    Here’s what really happened:
    1) A student’s parent had concerns about their child’s safety, and reported the issue to the school – There is nothing wrong with this. Plain and simple – if you feel your child is at risk, you need to do what you feel is necessary to protect them.

    2) Complaint prompts automatic investigation – Once again, nothing wrong with this. Federal law (and a justified law, at that) requires prompt investigation and resolution of sexual harassment/assault complaints.

    3) The school depends on Chris Glaros to write a report detailing his findings on cultural problems within the band. Here’s where the debacle started. Glaros went into the investigation with the preconceived notion that the band’s culture is what caused/allowed the student’s sexual assault. All quotes and answers from interviews were taken with this bias, and the report was written as his best effort at proving what he suspected all along – that the band was riddled with sexual deviancy and suffered from an environment of widespread harassment. The only problem was: it actually wasn’t.

    4) Report lands on Drake’s desk. As a new President, he doesn’t really have a choice but to give the benefit of the doubt to the infrastructure that was in place before he arrived. If he were to worry that every subordinate was as incompetent as Glaros, he would get absolutely nothing done. So he takes the report at face value, as the full truth, and responds accordingly. If he were to truly believe that the report accurately represented what happened in the band, he had no choice but to fire Waters.

    5) Damage Control – Drake, the BoT, and the rest of the administration now look like complete idiots. They accepted a report written at a college level as gospel, and now the media is pounding them. Now, the school has put themselves into the asinine position where it is in their best interests to show just how terrible the band truly was. In their stupidity, they have cornered themselves into a situation where they need to demonize alumni and Waters, just to justify their own miscues.

    If this is a taste to come of Drake’s tenure, I would like to humbly request Holbrook’s return.

  2. John says:

    Well said James!

  3. angry mom says:

    Now the current band members are being harassed by the title 9 people and being told they can’t call anyone by Amy nickname even if they had the nickname before they arrived on campus. Band members tried to all where campus started and stopped for them and were basically told this even went for when they are off campus. They are being treated as if they live in a communistic state and are having their freedom of speech squelched. Maybe time to get the ACLU involved or file a class action lawsuit.

  4. angry dad says:

    This is a accurate statement by angry mom, my son, in his fifth year, says that the title 9 people are treating them like they are the criminals, the questions that they ask are not answered, instead they are told to start acting mature and be responsible for their actions.
    Who is protecting my son from the Ohio State university?

  5. angry mom says:

    I think its time for a formal complaint against the university and the title 9 people for a hostile and harrassing environment. Also against Mr Drake, Mr Galos and the BOT for their actions and refusal to admit their mistakes. I did not send my son there to be harrassed by his own school

  6. Anonymous says:

    Or… a couple other possibilities exist:
    1. Your interpretation is wrong and he deserved to be fired.
    2. No one cares.
    Ever consider those, Mike?

  7. Amanda says:

    Or…
    1. Obviously you haven’t cared to figure out whether or not the report is factual – you’re only taking into account what you’re being told to believe.
    2. Obviously people do by the fact that over 13,000 have signed a petition to have him reinstated and over $37,000 has been raised to help Jon’s family get through this tough time. Obviously someone cares.
    Ever consider that, Anonymous?

  8. James says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 21, 2014 at 10:06 am

    “Or… a couple other possibilities exist:
    1. Your interpretation is wrong and he deserved to be fired.
    2. No one cares.
    Ever consider those, Mike?”

    And on your right – a troll, in his natural habitat.

  9. Jerry says:

    This is what happens when you hire an affirmative action college president.

  10. Brutus says:

    I didn’t realize that Affirmative Action supported the hiring of Socialists, too. Maybe that’s just a bonus for bringing in a California academic. Jon Waters for OSU president!

  11. MM says:

    “James says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 21, 2014 at 10:06 am

    “Or… a couple other possibilities exist:
    1. Your interpretation is wrong and he deserved to be fired.
    2. No one cares.
    Ever consider those, Mike?”

    And on your right – a troll, in his natural habitat.”

    Those are actual possibilities. Attacking someone when they present alternative views is in fact trolling.

  12. Joseph says:

    Well said, Mike. I was in the OSUMB from 1991-93 and I can tell you that the report is full of misrepresentations, half-truths, and bold faced lies. First, let me say that the band described in the Glaros report is not the band that I remember. Let me deal with things one by one:

    1)Everything that is excuricular to the band is and always has been completely voluntary. I never took and oath about anything.

    2)Midnight Ramp was an event that the University knew about and still allowed to happen without public knowledge. It’s purpose, however, was never anything sexual and you didn’t have to do it in your underwear or even show up for it at all, and many didn’t. The thought behind it was that if you can do the Ramp Entrance in your underwear in front of your closest friends, you can do it in uniform before 105,000 people. That’s it.
    3)Flying 69.I only vaguely remember this only because it happened once or twice. It’s not anything sexual, either. It was a shinanigan about hanging from the interior roof of the bus that happened to have a sexual name attached. No one ever did it less than fully clothed. Again, no one was ever forced to do it.

    4)The term “rookie”. The term “rookie” is used in professional sports, with a Rookie of the Year award given annually. I don’t understand why it’s okay in the pros but not for the OSUMB.I had no problem with it. It helped me learn to earn the respect of my peers.

    5)Nicknames. I had one. Most of us did and they weren’t even close to being sexual in nature or demeaning in any way. Most nickenames were forgotten not lond after they were given. If it stuck, it stuck, and the person to whom it belonged didn’t have an issue with it.Usually the opposite was true.

    6)Rookie tricks. Again none were coerced and were just silly things we did for entertainment. Most that I recall were nowhere near anything sexual.

    7)Changing on the buses. Um, we had to do this for lack of anywhere else to change! We took turns shielding each other for privacy. We had a job to do.

    8)At no time did I ever witness anyone consuming alcohol while in uniform or during band time or events. Yes, we did have parties off campus like every other college student who likes to have fun in this way.

    My years as a member of TBDBITL were among the best in my life. I, and many of my TBDBITL brothers and sisters, feel that we have, collectively, been victims of a broad character assassination by the University. Jon Waters was working with student leaders in the band to change some things to make them a more positive experience while shedding others that weren’t really needed around the band anymore. The directors, past and present, as well as every TBDBITL Alumni and current member work and have worked very hard to put the best shows on the field every week for Buckeye fan to enjoy. I and my fellow Alumni are very angry that the University has been this irresponsible in dragging us through the mud the way they have.I was hazed and harassed outside of the OSUMB in high school and other places and let me tell you, that, was far from what I experienced in TBDBITL. I support the reinstatement of Jon Waters because it is the right thing for OSU to do.

    #WeStandWithTBDBITL

    #WeStandWithJonWaters

  13. RPL says:

    MM says:
    August 21, 2014 at 3:18 pm

    ““James says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 21, 2014 at 10:06 am

    “Or… a couple other possibilities exist:
    1. Your interpretation is wrong and he deserved to be fired.
    2. No one cares.
    Ever consider those, Mike?”

    And on your right – a troll, in his natural habitat.”

    Those are actual possibilities. Attacking someone when they present alternative views is in fact trolling.”

    Those are not alternate views. They are just statements, with no factual backing, that go against the facts that have actually been established. “No one cares” is not a view – it is just an incendiary, trolling remark that has no basis in fact. The flood of donors withdrawing/refusing donations to the school directly and completely contradicts this statement. It’s not a matter of opinion or “view” – it is a fact.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Actually, “no one cares” is a real possibility.
    When you consider the numbers Mike was pushing vs the small vocal minority that continues to behave regrettably childish surrounding this issue, yeah… most people on and off campus really don’t care.

    But hey, at least one of you all finally stepped up to the plate with at least a passive aggressive attempt at the racism that has underlined much of this conversation. “Affirmative action” President?
    Don’t even have the balls to call him the real word you want to use, huh?
    Cowards.

  15. The Captain says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 21, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    “Actually, “no one cares” is a real possibility.”

    This is literally disproved by simply reading these comments. There are clearly people who care very much about this. Every opinion poll taken has shown strong support for the band director. Even you apparently care enough to continue trolling this comments section.

    It’s interesting that none of the people who support the firing seem to use facts in their arguments. It’s always short, unsupported statements (i.e. “no one cares”), or non sequitur arguments, or disproved anecdotes taken from the debunked Glaros Report. It should be reassuring to the pro-band group that Drake seems to only be supported by uninformed or willingly ignorant people.

    Even given a month to think it over, Drake and the administration have utterly failed in creating a compelling narrative to cover themselves; there has literally not been a single anti-band response published yet that used facts or logic in crafting its argument, and that’s a big deal.

  16. Anonymous says:

    Fair enough, I do care.
    But only because you all are making our University look like a bunch of self obsessed fools disconnected from reality.

    No one “uses facts in their arguments”… Untrue, but supporters all just have the same canned response to what the actual facts are.
    You’re looking through rose colored glasses at a situation that was clearly operating outside the bounds of expected behavior on campus.
    I’m not going to continue to lay it out to hear the same tired responses over and over.

    Title IX. Look it up. Learn something.
    Look up the Lantern article on the band and the former Title IX director that quit and read her quote on why she left.
    Read between the lines.
    Add in the culture of the band to the equation.
    If, at the end, your solution is “Keep Waters, fire Drake” then you spent too much time in college focused on the band and not enough on academics.
    When even the Title IX director is afraid to act, there is a huge problem on campus.

    Dr. Drake is here to fix the culture that Gee let fester for years.
    And I’m just fine with him starting with the band, but it won’t end there.
    And thats a good thing.
    And it will be for the better, for those of us here to educate ourselves.

  17. Thy Dishonor Defend says:

    I think by “no one cares” about supporting Waters, Anonymous means most of the populace e want to have nothing to do with him or defending the behaviors of those under him, especially after reading the report and its attached exhibits (which have notably been left off at the WeStandWithJohnWaters site).

    Fortunately, most people do not have band-bias. Saying the report is wrong because “you say so” and demanding your leader’s job back shows an intense amount of narcissism and self-importance by a group that makes up only .05% of the university at any given time. So far your arguments have been, “pshaw, it wasn’t that bad”, “the administration is lying”, “the public will demand ‘justice’” (that one’s not going so well), and the most recent and my favorite: “We’ll use money to get our way!”

    OSU has hired multiple independent investigators to conduct a further review of the band. Most people find this perfectly acceptable except for conspiracy theorists who have set up convenient scenarios so that no matter what is uncovered their beliefs will be protected. TBDBITL Alumni are throwing a fit because the band will have to change its behavior and traditions, which they think are far more important than they really are. The rest of the world will continue to whisk right by this tantrum and get on with real life.

  18. Casey M Price says:

    Thy Dishonor Defend says:
    August 21, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    “I think by “no one cares” about supporting Waters, Anonymous means most of the populace e want to have nothing to do with him or defending the behaviors of those under him, especially after reading the report and its attached exhibits (which have notably been left off at the WeStandWithJohnWaters site).

    Fortunately, most people do not have band-bias. Saying the report is wrong because “you say so” and demanding your leader’s job back shows an intense amount of narcissism and self-importance by a group that makes up only .05% of the university at any given time. So far your arguments have been, “pshaw, it wasn’t that bad”, “the administration is lying”, “the public will demand ‘justice’” (that one’s not going so well), and the most recent and my favorite: “We’ll use money to get our way!”

    OSU has hired multiple independent investigators to conduct a further review of the band. Most people find this perfectly acceptable except for conspiracy theorists who have set up convenient scenarios so that no matter what is uncovered their beliefs will be protected. TBDBITL Alumni are throwing a fit because the band will have to change its behavior and traditions, which they think are far more important than they really are. The rest of the world will continue to whisk right by this tantrum and get on with real life.”

    1) Nobody is arguing that the independent investigations should not be happening – one of the major arguments alumni are making is that the school should have had the common sense to wait until the actual independent investigations were complete before making rash decisions that will likely prove to be overkill. People who have been interviewed by Betty Montgomery’s task force have reported a much more professional, even-handed investigative approach than the incompetence exhibited by OSU. They are actually interested in the FACTS, not in supporting a pre-conceived notion of a widespread, “sexualized” culture. They are also very interested in the ways the school is making current band members feel uncomfortable with smothering, fear-mongering “training sessions” that border on harassment.

    2) Nobody is saying the report is wrong because “we say so”. The people who were interviewed literally have gone on record saying they were misquoted, or had their testimony twisted to tell a completely fabricated story. The people who were identified in the report, by name, as “victims” have come forward and said virtually everything the report said about them was wrong; despite the apparent concern the investigator had about the “victims”, they never felt the need to actually interview them at any point. None of this is under contention – all of this is on the record.

    3) Your mention of the importance of the exhibits proves your ignorance about the situation. Notice how neither document was dated? Probably because they both preceded Waters’ tenure as director, and because he didn’t know about them. There is literally zero evidence otherwise – it wasn’t even suggested by those interviewed. Glaros apparently just stuck it in at the end, hoping that the average reader (read: you) would eat it up and jump to the conclusion that Waters must have condoned/written them.

    4) The rest of your post is a long train of non-sequitur arguments that absolutely nobody is making. Nobody is saying “pshaw, it wasn’t that bad” or “We’ll use money to get our way!”. Here’s a hint: Quote marks are for quotes, and nobody has said those things (well, except for you). What people ARE saying, however, is that the Glaros Report has made wide-sweeping accusations that the university has no evidence for – and, indeed, now have direct evidence against.

    5) I’m particularly amused by your derision of the belief that ““the public will demand ‘justice’” (that one’s not going so well)”. It’s going extraordinarily well, actually. The media attempted to cover Drake’s session with band members today, and to question the validity of the report, but Drake ordered campus police to keep the reporters away from him; he had to escape the back way out of the band room to avoid being asked very simple questions. He’s on the run, and doesn’t want to answer for his missteps. Virtually all media coverage is now pro-Waters, and Drake is being questioned on a daily basis.

    It’s virtually assured that Waters won’t be back as director, but he won’t have to work another day in his life when he gets his settlement package.

  19. MM says:

    He did know about the songbook. He’d admitted seeing it as a student and ignored it from there. But hey, it’s all good. Keep dreaming about that lawsuit settlement. You should probably wait to see what they pull from his email first before placing your bets, though. He seems to be.

  20. Anonymous says:

    So the band alumni are working hard to make sure the perpetrators behind the Unofficial Songbook and exams are brought to light and publicly denounced by the TBDBITL Alumni club, right?

  21. Anonymous says:

    MM says:
    August 21, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    “He did know about the songbook. He’d admitted seeing it as a student and ignored it from there. But hey, it’s all good. Keep dreaming about that lawsuit settlement. You should probably wait to see what they pull from his email first before placing your bets, though. He seems to be.”

    Knowing that a songbook had existed at some point in the past is not the same as knowing that it was being distributed by band members, during band time, during his tenure as director. Sorry, but you don’t get to move the goal posts by saying that he deserves to be fired now for something he saw 10 years before he was hired.

  22. Jim Thurman says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 21, 2014 at 11:12 pm

    “So the band alumni are working hard to make sure the perpetrators behind the Unofficial Songbook and exams are brought to light and publicly denounced by the TBDBITL Alumni club, right?”

    ———————————————————————————–

    The TBDBITL Alumni club has made it very clear that they don’t agree with or condone any of the offensive content of the songbook. That being said, most of the songs in the songbook were created over 30 years ago; stop trying to justify Waters getting fired in 2014 by citing content that was written in 1980, and reprinted in 2006 without the directors’ knowledge.

    I realize your attention span is very limited, but try to stay on topic here. You can complain about the songs 50-year old alumni wrote at a different time. This story is about Drake inviting controversy by firing a director without affording due process or a competent investigator.

  23. Dr. Raymond Boothe says:

    There is no doubt that there have been problems with the marching band that Jon Walters could have corrected. It was his lack of speed that did him in. There is no excuse for some of the things that continued to go on within the band. He lied to university officials and was caught doing it. That was enough to have him removed.

    However, this goes much deeper than people think. The marching band and athletic bands have always been part of the Athletic Department. The College of Fine Arts and the School of Music really did not want much to do with them, thinking that these bands were beneath their mission as an academic enity. However, since Ohio State Athletics have become the world’s biggest college money generator, the College of Fine Arts and the School of Music have looked seriously about picking up some needed cash. Athletic Director Gene Smith, does not really want to finance these college bands. To accomplish this he and the School of Music have drummed up charges against Jon Waters to finally have the Athletic Bands put under the academic control of the School of Fine Arts and the School of Music. This is the same Gene Smith (with the help of a crooked Board of Trustees) who managed to fire a popular football coach (Jim Tressel), a Nationally renowned college president (President Gee) and now a popular band director. Gene Smith and the Board of Trustees is where the stink at Ohio State starts. OSU has been forced to take a back seat in leadership because of power plays by Smith and the Board of Trustees.

    Jon Waters is finished at Ohio State no matter what. He and the band must move on. A protracted lawsuit against Ohio State’s high powered group of lawyers would be futile because of the cost involved. And even if he wins after such a lawsuit, OSU still has the right to put him into another position other than OSU Marching Band Director.Thus ends another chapter in OSU’s battered history- Woody, Tressel, Gee and now Waters.

  24. Anonymous says:

    You seemed to be the ones misinformed. The book was updated as recently as 2006, minimum, years after Waters had first seen it (though he has been caught in other lies to protect his job when there is proof, which sheds doubt on much of his claims). A member was easily able to get a copy to submit to the investigation. Water’s wasn’t hired 10 years later, he was hired as soon as he graduated, first as a graduate assistant for one year, then the assistant director for ten years before becoming head director. It would be imbecilic to assume something that had been added to for decades wasn’t still around.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Love the running gag about the School of Music thinking the band was “beneath them.”
    If you were a serious academic in any academic dept, meanwhile over to the side is this club that behaves horribly behind the scenes as we have come to find, why WOULD you want to associate with them?
    I mean, I get it, I was in my college’s marching band, too.
    And OSU’s is above all others on the field.
    But it still is a CLASS, for CREDIT.
    All expectations for professional behavior still apply.

    Why would the School of Music WANT to get tied up in Athletics drama, anyway?
    We’ve seen how well that group behaves in many public ways.

    And you are 100% right, Gene Smith has plenty of stink on him, and Gee made sure to pay him a ridiculous amount of money in terms of salary to be Gee’s shill. Gene currently makes around $200k more than Drake, for instance. \
    Chances are, if you want to push a conspiracy theory around about Gene, that he got all his direction from Gee in the first place, so don’t be so quick to toss Gee up on the martyr shelf along with Waters.

    If I was running the School of Music I’d want to distance myself from this hot mess, too.
    Right now, though, you all ought to count your lucky stars that Music is getting involved at all.
    It could be a huge saving grace that you all want to turn into a pariah right now because its convenient to your narrative.
    You have none of the precious facts to substantiate any of those claims.

  26. Buckeye in the West says:

    Yes, only 13,000+ people signed the petition and over $37,000 was raised. That is very good considering this happened with the students off campus and most alumni on vacation, getting heir kids ready fro school, etc.

    All people have to do is look at the locate TV station web sites to see how the so called “investigative reports” has been torn apart. WCMH has effectively debunked the entire report, in a “fact check”.

    As more students and alumni learn about this, the more they will come forward. This is not wishful thinking or being over optimistic; this is the Buckeye Nation.

    I think the original letter hit the nail on the head. The OSU Administration did a botched “investigation” to placate Title IX, they created a “report” that was one sided, made current and former band members look like they are candidates for sexual predator status and faired the band director because they needed to prove to the federal government OSU has zero tolerance for any form on Title IX violation.

    What OSU really did is that President Drake has lost all respect from anyone who is familiar with the story. The Board of Trustees are in a contest with the one at Penn State to see which one can be more incompetent, the Office of Compliance, is viewed, as a department full of people who could work fro the Ministry of Truth from “1984″ or as Lenin said “Tell a lie enough times; it becomes the truth”.

    The Montgomery investigation, as well as other planned investigations, will not be enough to cover over the mess. Meanwhile, the current band is being subjected to micromanaged from the Title Ix Compliance; making a bad situation, worse.

    Jon Waters probably won’t get his job back, but the defamation suit, the wrongful termination suit, and the suits planned by current and former band members, for defamation, could see heads roll out of Bricker Hall; deservingly so.

    Finally, I just wonder what will happen when the band takes the field for the Virginia Tech game. And, when President Drake is introduced as the new President. I think we will see who cares and who does not. I expect the biggest ovation ever for the band and the loudest chorus of boos in Ohio Stadium history.

  27. Aaron K says:

    I foresee Jonathan Waters getting as much money off of band alumni as possible and then declaring he ‘can’t bring himself to sue the university he loves’. AKA he knows he has no way of winning but thanks for the cash.

  28. Anonymous says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 22, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    “Love the running gag about the School of Music thinking the band was “beneath them.”
    If you were a serious academic in any academic dept, meanwhile over to the side is this club that behaves horribly behind the scenes as we have come to find, why WOULD you want to associate with them?
    I mean, I get it, I was in my college’s marching band, too.
    And OSU’s is above all others on the field.
    But it still is a CLASS, for CREDIT.
    All expectations for professional behavior still apply.

    Why would the School of Music WANT to get tied up in Athletics drama, anyway?
    We’ve seen how well that group behaves in many public ways.”

    Why would they want to get involved? Pretty simple, actually:
    1) Money
    2) More Money
    3) National Exposure
    4) They would be able to change tryout criteria to be more music-major friendly – skew the rubric to favor strong playing skills versus physical marching ability. Having the marching band on your resume is extremely valuable in the music education field, and the SoM would like to see this benefit as many music majors as possible.

    These aren’t conjectures or guesses – the band has been struggling against such pressure from the School of Music for a very long time. But there is no way they instigated this investigation/witch-hunt – they simply don’t have the influence to do so. I have no doubt that they would like to take advantage of the opportunity to make changes they would like to see, but I find it hard to believe they are actually pulling the strings.

    And yes, you keep repeating that band is a “CLASS, for CREDIT” – did you know that every varsity sport is a CLASS, for CREDIT? As soon as you say that Urban Meyer and Thad Matta should be fired because members of their teams have acted unprofessionally, I’ll accept that you have a rational opinion on Waters’ firing (even if I don’t agree with it, at least you will have been consistent).

  29. Aaron K says:

    “All people have to do is look at the locate TV station web sites to see how the so called “investigative reports” has been torn apart. WCMH has effectively debunked the entire report, in a “fact check”.

    This is and out and out lie. NBC did a fact check on President Drake’s statement, not the report itself.

    “We focused on this investigation, which came from a series of complaints and activities taken place between the spring of 2013 and the summer of 2014,” Drake told NBC.

    And then proceeded to list items in the report that happened in before 2013. That is not a ‘fact check’ of items in the report. And Waters was a director for twelve years. Assistant director has director in the name for a reason. How callous and deceptive to say this has ‘effectively debunked the entire report’.

    Also, in spring 2013, despite the swarming minefield of he presided over as the assistant director for an entire decade before, he couldn’t be bothered until fall 2013, after a second assault, to take the sexual harassment training prescribed by Title IX. That tipped an already massively loaded scale. The university shouldn’t have to wait for a third and a fourth to clean his mess up.

    Blaming all these problems on everyone else but the people responsible–the band members who couldn’t control themselves and the director who failed to act over twelve years–is unbecoming and exposes yet another ugly facet of the this thankfully discontinued culture.

  30. Aaron K says:

    I also find it interesting that those interviewee’s came forward to say they’d been misquoted weeks afterward–weeks during which the rest of the alumni were busy lashing out at everything report-related. I’d like to see an investigation into that.

  31. Anonymous says:

    1&2) So, MONEY is the primary issue here, huh?
    Hope you realize that the class that is taken for credit is MUSIC 2205.1.
    Which means the School of Music already is getting the money from enrollment, genius.
    So, this angle is pretty much invalid.

    3)When people see the marching BAND on TV, do you suppose they assume you have to be a great athlete or musician to get a spot?
    Does it not occur to you that any reasonable person would assume that there already would be close ties with the marching BAND and School of Music? Possibly because that is how it is done at 99% of the colleges and universities around the country?
    So, this point you were trying to make is completely moot, too.

    4) So, having the best musicians on each instrument is not important to TBDBITL? Your point is that the Music school would hold them to a higher standard and this would hurt what is already, by your own accounts, a great line on the resume? The SChool of Music would like actual music majors to benefit from playing in the band, you know the ones who are most likely to have a role in music education/performance as a career? SHOCKING…. Do you even read what you write?

    And, yes, absolutely, everyone in a position of power over students should be held to a high standard… the name Jim Tressel ring any bells?

  32. Anonymous says:

    Aaron K says:
    August 22, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    “And then proceeded to list items in the report that happened in before 2013. That is not a ‘fact check’ of items in the report. And Waters was a director for twelve years. Assistant director has director in the name for a reason. How callous and deceptive to say this has ‘effectively debunked the entire report’.”

    ~~~

    Yes is it a fact check of items in the report. The report itself has a detailed section titled “Scope of This Investigation”. In this section, it states in clear language that it was investigating the existence of a sexualized culture in the marching band – NOT whether or not the culture HAS even been sexualized. Showing documents from 2006 as evidence in a report that cites its own scope as current culture is simply disingenuous and, frankly, completely irrelevant. So yes, a fact check that points out this simple truth does indeed debunk the findings of this report.

  33. Anonymous says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 22, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    “1&2) So, MONEY is the primary issue here, huh?
    Hope you realize that the class that is taken for credit is MUSIC 2205.1.
    Which means the School of Music already is getting the money from enrollment, genius.
    So, this angle is pretty much invalid.

    3)When people see the marching BAND on TV, do you suppose they assume you have to be a great athlete or musician to get a spot?
    Does it not occur to you that any reasonable person would assume that there already would be close ties with the marching BAND and School of Music? Possibly because that is how it is done at 99% of the colleges and universities around the country?
    So, this point you were trying to make is completely moot, too.

    4) So, having the best musicians on each instrument is not important to TBDBITL? Your point is that the Music school would hold them to a higher standard and this would hurt what is already, by your own accounts, a great line on the resume? The SChool of Music would like actual music majors to benefit from playing in the band, you know the ones who are most likely to have a role in music education/performance as a career? SHOCKING…. Do you even read what you write?”

    I’m….not sure you understand how to use logic. Your response to 1&2 is simply asinine – if you think that most of the money the band brings in is just through enrollment, I question your level of intelligence. The band attracts money through donations, special events, and advertising. The School of Music would love to see some of that money.

    Your answers to 3 & 4 are beginning to make me think you’re just a member of the School of Music, because you literally confirmed everything I said the SoM wanted to do to the band. You are clearly supporting higher music standards at the expense of marching standards, and of including more music majors in the band (you know, so they can benefit on their resume). This is exactly what band members were worried about the entire time. No, in a nutshell, TBDBITL does not want the best musicians playing their instruments – they want the best marchers on the field, who also happen to be good musicians.

    I do like the non sequitur insults you included on your comments though, especially paired with your obvious lack of ability to argue logically or process what you are reading.

  34. Anonymous says:

    Anonymous says – “So, having the best musicians on each instrument is not important to TBDBITL? Your point is that the Music school would hold them to a higher standard and this would hurt what is already, by your own accounts, a great line on the resume? The SChool of Music would like actual music majors to benefit from playing in the band, you know the ones who are most likely to have a role in music education/performance as a career? SHOCKING…. Do you even read what you write”

    This comment shows that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Are you even vaguely aware for example, that music majors in TBDBITL are NOT ALLOWED to play the first trumpet part, since the requirements of that place too much strain on the embouchure, and would hamper their ability to perform their trumpet studio commitments? Trumpet music majors only play the second or third parts, that are far less demanding on the facial muscles.

    There are plenty of music majors in TBDBITL, even if they don’t always play lead parts. The real danger is that the School of Music gets its way, and breaks up TBDBITL as the largest brass and percussion band in the world, and forces it to add woodwinds, so that it can attract more potential band directors who are not brass players. That would be woodwinds, that no one can hear in a 105,00 seat stadium – the very reason that TBDBITL became all brass in the first place. It would also destroy Columbus’ position as the bras band capital of North America, thanks to TBDBITL.

  35. Anonymous says:

    *sigh*
    You obviously don’t understand how things work on campus.
    Depts/Schools get the majority of their money from enrollment.
    The advertising/donations/special events may or may not go back into a specific kitty for the band, but regardless of whether the umbrella organization is athletics or music, that would still be the case.
    Arguing that the dept itself would horde all the money for some other nefarious purpose is a shell game meant to create yet some other scary on campus monster for you all to point your finger at.
    If, however, that is your concern, the band’s funds could easily be protected in many ways, non of which I have the patience to explain to you here. But do keep in mind that OSU is a non profit governmental agency, so anyone could get the numbers and where money is being funneled all they want… so feel free to do your own actual research. Or just continue to spout off about things without any actual knowledge of their inner workings.

    YOUR rebuttal to 3 & 4 only show the paranoia under which you are operating.
    I am not affiliated with the band, School of Music, or admin/staff.
    What I laid out is basic common sense for any music program in the country.
    The fact that you see the idea that the University Marching Band operating under the supervision of the School of Music as some kind of subversive plot to deceive and manipulate students and the band, while being unable to comprehend the actual recent behavior as unacceptable, is evidence of the willingness on your side of the argument to make false equivalencies, ignore common sense, and generally portray anyone not directly associated with the band as inherently evil and ignorant in order to vilify anyone who disagrees with you.

    And, for the record, you bore me, so I’m out.
    Good luck with your pitchforks and torches.

  36. Old time Buckeye Alumni says:

    Has anyone from the media asked the university’s SENIOR leadership about the hundreds of complaints being filed by donors and alumni subjected to the latest barrage of phone calls from The OSU Foundation begging for money? Go ask the guy they pay $750,000 to run the fundraising at OSU. The alumni are not at all happy about this latest embarrassing chapter.

  37. John L says:

    Anonymous says:
    August 22, 2014 at 8:37 pm

    “What I laid out is basic common sense for any music program in the country.”

    —————

    We don’t want to be like any other music program in the country. We don’t care about preferential treatment given to music majors at any other school in the country.

  38. Having read this I believed it was rather informative. I appreciate you finding the time and
    energy to put this information together.
    I once again find myself personally spending way too much time both reading and commenting.

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  39. OSU Dad says:

    Check out the Wikipedia entry for UC Irvine. Drake messed it up so bad there’s a section just for controversies. Kick backs for student transfers, anti-semitism, sending students out to meet terrotists. And YouTube has the ever popular underwear run through campus. But I guess underwear is only sexually explicit when it’s the band.

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